Well, Here's My Two Cents on the South and Snow

"iforgotmyburnerkeyonce" (zer0hz) 01/31/2014 at 16:19 • Filed to: Rant

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I just spent a while reading about !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! people a particular author on Gizmodo are is about the recent snows shutting down Birmingham. Here's my take. Warning: Rant Ahead.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

1.) Dear Mr. Gizmodo author, no, you're the asshole. I didn't call you an asshole first, hell, I didn't even care that the South was having issues with the snow. I was too busy, like a sizable amount of the population, dealing with the snow myself.

2.) The "We don't know how to drive in snow" argument is bullshit. Do you drive in the rain? Do roads ever get slick? You either know how to drive or you do not. Next.

3.) Wasn't there a saying about those in glass houses and getting stoned?

When it snows where you live, the salt and the snowplows are out on the streets before you even wake up. When you talk about six inches of snow in your city, you are almost definitely talking about six inches of snow on the median strip and shoulder, and highways that are slick, but clear. I'd take that over two inches of snow and ice on every major road any day.

No, the plows don't even START to plow until after the storm has hit. Period. Most times they wait until after the bulk of it has passed. It's just logical to wait until there's not going to be any more snow coming down before plowing a dense urban/suburban landscape. If there's still snow coming, any efforts made could be for naught. Salting doesn't happen until the plowing has finished. Clearly the author of the article didn't REALLY have to drive when he lived in Manhattan and it was snowing.

4.) I'm done numbering, I'm just going to go paragraph by paragraph.

When it snows where you live, it is the latest in a string of snowfalls that date back centuries. You own a car with four-wheel-drive for that very purpose. You may even own snow tires. This is great! You are prepared. But waking up in Birmingham to snow is like waking up in New Hampshire to quicksand.

Wrong again, asshole (Can I call you that? You called me that, so I'll take that as a yes.). I do not own a car with AWD or 4WD, and even if I did, the ability to spin all four tires instead of just the two in front or back isn't going to help me STOP or STEER . You're a misguided soul.

Edit: Also, I wanted to elaborate that most people here don't have snow and summer tires, unless they can afford it. We run all-seasons just as they run all-seasons all-over.

When it snows where you live, you're able to pick up your kids and get home and sit by the fireplace (you have firewood and a fireplace, because it is cold often). As of two hours ago, 4,000 children were still stuck in public schools—where they spent the night —because their parents had no way to reach them.

Here's a little bit about me: I live in the South-West suburbs of Chicago. Actually it's far enough south that I live in the middle of miles of cornfields. Last time it snowed, I COULDN'T GET HOME EITHER. You're not the only people suffering.

Since, like I previously mentioned, my car is NOT 4WD or AWD, I end up getting stuck more often than my 4WD/AWD counterparts. It's a fact I've learned to accept. Since I live in the middle of nowhere and winds were causing snow drifts, my driveway was un-plowable. Well, technically you could plow it, but by the time you got to the end, you'd have to shovel yourself back into the house. Except you're not using a shovel, you're using a frontloader. And it's STILL filling in as quick as you can plow it away.

What's the point of this paragraph? People DO end up stranded up here in "the North," but we just don't bitch about it.

When it snows where you live, people may die. That happened to five people here, at last count. Those deaths aren't funny or quirky just because it happened below the Mason-Dixon.

No, it's not funny. If someone thinks it's funny, they really are an asshole, but not for the reasons you've stated.

Since I started off this rant with numbering, I managed to skip the part that you put in the beginning of the "Why You're an Asshole" section:

I want to be clear right off that not everyone is being an asshole about this. Plenty of people are genuinely confused about how something like this could have happened, and it's a valid thing to be confused about. I lived in Manhattan for seven years before I moved here. I would have been confused too.

Who's really being an asshole about this? What's the point of your article? Is it just to incite rage in the minds of others that you've inevitably pissed off through your wording? Perhaps you'd like to make a splash and get a huge response? That's why you're an asshole.

TRUTH IS:

Anyone who's making a big deal about how "oh my God, the South is closed because of two inches of snow" isn't even in the snow to begin with. That's right. The people who are criticizing the decisions that the people in power made are the people who aren't smart enough to read your article in the first place. I can tell you for a FACT that we're not going out and attacking Southerners for being up in arms. We're put in just the same situation here in the Midwest. We had -30*F windchills as well as several inches of snow.

I can personally tell you that the roads aren't all nice and pretty before it even happens (though, through this second cold snap, I was surprised that the roads were only bad for one day).

Most of all you've got to remember that yes, we do get snow. Yes, we do get cold. Yes, we're used to it, but we're not used to the -30*F winds, just as you're not used to a couple inches of snow. This was something that swept across the nation. The South wasn't the only place hit. EVERYONE had issues.

All that being said, Mr. Brian Barrett, I'd like to to please apologize for calling us "Northerners" assholes. We're not the assholes, YOU ARE. You're using scandalous, accusatory statements in wake of an emergency to promote your journalism. You're the dickhead who posts pictures of a tragedy after somebody dies. You're a part of the stereotypical American media that is based on provoking people to increase publicity.

If you're going to go ahead and make blanket statements about a large portion of the country, make sure you've got EVERY SINGLE WORD you've written correct. I'm not calling the South pussies for how they dealt with the snow. I'm calling you a pussy for calling us assholes. So let's take a look at one last quote:

I work from home; I got off easy. The worst that's happened to me in this storm is that my pipes temporarily froze (again), and that I don't have my usual childcare options today. But I have many friends who spent the night at their offices last night, who had to abandon their cars and walk four miles in 12 degree weather to get home to their families.

Oh, boo-hoo. Unless you were IN the snow, do us all a favor and shut the hell up.

MonkeePuzzle > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 16:25

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iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > MonkeePuzzle 01/31/2014 at 16:27

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Don't know if me or him. If me, thanks, I think I'll go get a leather jacket to match my new title.

MonkeePuzzle > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 16:30

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jsut seemed like the right response to a rant, any rant.

I felt the whole south thing was overblown, it was a big deal, things happened, people actually died. both sides of the argument seem to have been sorta dickish

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > MonkeePuzzle 01/31/2014 at 16:36

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Truth. There's a difference, though, between a news station sensationalizing something they actually have to deal with and some guy sitting cozy at home while people are suffering pointing fingers and calling names.

Sensationalism in media isn't new, and probably isn't going away. Some dick calling names and making blanket statements over something he didn't even have to go through is just wrong. Its like if I said "You're all assholes because the Holocaust."

CobraJoe > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 16:50

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No, the plows don't even START to plow until after the storm has hit. Period. Most times they wait until after the bulk of it has passed.

Not here in Omaha. There was tell tale marks of salt mixture sprayed on the roads this morning before I left for work, and we haven't even had precipitation yet. And when it does snow, the plows are out and working as early as possible to keep the roads clear and the traffic moving, especially on the main roads and highways.

And as for driving in rain vs driving in snow/ice? That's complete BS. Snow and ice is utterly different, and even if you're able to control your car on a slippery road, it's a different skill set to drive on ice and snow. Even ice and snow require two different driving techniques. Even here in Omaha where ice and snow is common in winter, people crash all the time.

Other than that, I agree with many of your points, even though they are quite aggressive.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > CobraJoe 01/31/2014 at 17:19

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Typically in Chicagoland, we end up with a salt deficiency by the end of the winter, so we try to preserve it as much as possible. I see plows out before the storm, but most of them are on the side of the road positioning themselves for when they get word to go. That's only talking about on the highways.

My brother works for a local township driving their plows, and he doesn't get called out until after it's hit or he's told to come in and get ready; they won't start plowing until it's done or almost done snowing. The same can be said about the suburban cities. Chicago, however, is so large that they may start plowing before it's all said and done, but Chicago is massive in comparison to any given one of it's suburbs.

As far as the snow/ice vs. rain thing, it's moreso a commentary on driver skill. Yes, in snow/ice you won't be able to stop regardless of the skill level of the driver, but drivers with skill will drive more carefully in snow/ice, just as they would in heavy rain.

My points are aggressive because I'm sick of the sensationalized b.s. from uninformed/unaffected sources. Originally it was going to be a rant about how it's not really that bad, but then I realized it isn't the entirety of the affected region complaining about the weather; rather, it's a single person making aggressive statements at relatively lesser-affected or better equipped region's population from the safety of his home.

Remember what happened when that CNN or NYT reporter wrote about F1 cars and turbos without any real knowledge on the topic? That's similar to the thing this dude did here, except he's calling names, too.

ellejay > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 17:57

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i can shut this whole thing down right now: there was ice. it wasn't a little dusting of snow. i lived in sarnia are for most of my life and lived in ottawa for 5 years. i understand the smarm boiling up inside all northerners. but there was ice on the road when people weren't expecting ice. there was ice on the road when people who aren't used to/don't know how to drive on ice weren't expecting ice.

i'm 25. i've lived in canada my whole life. i've had my beginners/g1 for almost 10 years because fuck that shit.

ellejay > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 17:58

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can i be a pink lady please?

Pyrax > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 18:17

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The "we don't know how to drive in it, we're SOUTHERNERS" part is the part that gets me the most.

1. My boyfriend came from Southern California where it never snows to Northern Indiana where we regularly have ice-covered roads (our city is terrible at plowing and salting). He did fine. No crashes, no spin-outs. The people claiming they are not capable of driving on ice are ignoring all those in the North that have to drive on ice for the first time at some point as they grow up, or those that move from South to North and don't get in accidents, because they...

2. GOOGLE IT. There are a few things you really should know when driving on icy roads - pump your brakes to stop, try not to stop on hills, get started slow, etc. These things you can learn from a simple Google search, "how to drive on ice". The vast majority of people on the roads were probably aware of the ice before they got in the car, and if they weren't, they could see it walking to the car. If they couldn't see it walking to the car, they could pull over and use a phone to either look it up or call someone to look it up. There may be a small group of people that don't watch the news, don't visit Facebook (I only had one Southerner on my feed and she posted a dozen times in a few hours about it), don't have a smartphone, and don't have the contact info of anyone near a computer, but that does not account for all the crashes.

I feel pity for the people that couldn't get through the roads because some idiots in the South decided that ice driving is identical to regular driving and weren't careful, causing crashes that backed everything up, but those Southerners don't need to defend their idiots. We have idiots too, we're just idiots in different ways (see: third degree burns caused by the sun on vacation to sunny Florida). Just accept that some dumb people ruined what shouldn't have been so life-threatening for the rest of you and give it a rest.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > ellejay 01/31/2014 at 18:18

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Yes, there was ice. Yes, they weren't expecting it. However, my point was there's a guy sitting somewhere around Birmingham being derogatory towards a part of his employer's target demographic.

If he had been in a large, traditional media publication, he'd be tarred and feathered for his article, if it even made it to print in the first place.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > Pyrax 01/31/2014 at 18:23

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I agree that it only takes one idiot to screw it up for everyone (I drive 60 miles to work each direction, past Chicago. Sometimes I wonder "ok, who screwed up?").

However, my main points were that the original article's author was derogatory towards a whole group of people, and that, though unfortunate, there were problems everywhere, not just in the South.

shockwaver > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 18:30

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This is a reply I put on Tumblr about this:

I realize that the situation in the South is terrible right now. Driving in those conditions sucks and can be very dangerous. I can commiserate with that. God knows I hate driving in this crap. And if all I saw was “Wow this weather is shit” type comments I wouldn’t be making this post. But what I see is people saying that what they have is so much worse then what people in the north experience.

But before you start screaming at people who live in the north who might make a wise crack - please know that we constantly get the kind of bullshit directed at us that you see in the image above (this image is from three days ago). This winter hasn’t exactly been kind to us either.

The second image shows how much snow we had piled against a door over a month ago - it’s now well above the door handles. The next image is the weather we’ve been having since the end of November. I don’t care how much winter clothing you own - when it’s -45 it chills you to the bone in seconds. It’s so painful that your eyes tear up and the tears freeze to your face.

If you’ve never lived where it snows and gets cold often - you might have a few misconceptions about how we deal with it.

1. Snowplows are not magical pieces of equipment that instantly make the roads safe to drive on. They scrape away the top layer of ice and snow which leaves a perfectly smooth sheet of glass-like ice that is nearly impossible to drive on.

2. I’ve seen articles posted that say snowplows up north are out before the snow stops - and that roads are clear by rush hour after 2 inches of snow. I’m here to tell you that is wrong. We’ve had our roads plowed 4 times since winter started. Every time was well over a week after the major snowfall. The ice ruts were about 6 inches deep at their peak - which means if you are driving down a road you can not change lanes, or get out of the way of anything. If your tire hits the wall of the rut, half the time it will jump out and cause the car to spin out of control. This happened to me on several occasions this year. It’s.. just a fact of life driving here in the winter.

3. Driving. During a snowfall - my 45 minute commute turns in to about 3 hours… if there are no accidents on my route. Driving in snow and ice means driving slowly.

4. Cars. I’ve seen it written that we all have snow tires on our vehicles, or 4WD, or chains on our tires. Well - snow tires are stupidly expensive. Most people I know can’t afford them - I can’t afford them. I’m driving on all season tires just like most of you are. The ratio of 4WD vehicles to cars isn’t any different here. And chains are illegal inside most cities (Mountain towns may be different though).

5. Salt. Salt only works when the temperatures are around 15-20F - any colder then that and it’s too cold for it to melt anything.

6. Sand. Sand lasts about 3 hours on a road before it’s all gone.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > shockwaver 01/31/2014 at 18:34

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Excellent post. Being in Chicagoland, I agree. I don't take your post as "Oh, yeah? Look at THIS!", but more so as "It's bad there, but hey, we're not doing too well up here, either."

shockwaver > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 18:46

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I grew up in Atlanta, I know that they aren't prepared. What actively pisses me off though is when they say they have it SO MUCH WORSE. This winter has been brutal up here - in 10 years I've never had it so cold for so long and so much snow. We have infrastructure to handle snow yes - but it's been incredibly overwhelmed. Hell, the city ran out of money in the snow clearing budget for November/December at the end of November. There was no snow clearing until the new year because of it.

Petticoat Despot > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 19:11

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Newp.

ICE storm. ICE storm.

This happens about ever 30 years there. The infrastructure isn't set up to handle it because it's set up for hurricanes. Snowplows do not even exist there. That said, it wouldn't matter anyway because the roads are all covered in ice and no one there has equipment for driving on ice and by the way, ooo the perils of black ice? The whole fucking road is ice. My hometown has a couple hundred bridges— all iced over. Someone posted a photo of one from the paper: easily half an inch of ice.

The last time there was an ice storm in the south, the power was out for days and many people don't have firewood. If this happens to the house of my handicapped mother who knows how to drive in snow because she used to live in Washington state, she will have to drive her sedan across one of two iced over land bridges with slightly frozen-over lakes on each side and no railings. Apparently, thinking that this could potentially be a problem MAKES ME AN IDIOT because YOU are unaware of that information.

And yes, you personally may not have been making those asshole jokes about the south, but 20 of my Facebook friends who are in the snow did. Again. You not personally being aware of other information is not the same thing as that information being wrong.

So yeah, I'm going to have to chime in on the side of stop being an asshole.

Petticoat Despot > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 19:18

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So you're not familiar at all with Jezebel, then.

People were being assholes about it. He had reasons to believe that that was assholish of them. He stated that. IF you are now arguing that he was insulting the site's audience, you are admitting that people were actually being assholes and furthermore that despite being assholes, they shouldn't have that pointed out because it might hurt their feefees.

The article was addressed at the assholes. You don't get to argue that no one was being an asshole and then argue that an article that is addressed to the assholes insults the audience and shouldn't be allowed, especially on a Gawker Media site, where the audience is routinely insulted even by the editors.

Petticoat Despot > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 19:21

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If you keep having to tell people why they took your article wrong, maybe you should think about what you wrote.

MadamePeaceLove > Petticoat Despot 01/31/2014 at 19:21

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Thanks. There are stupid drivers EVERYWHERE. There are anxious drivers everywhere (um, me). Those two combined with conditions that people in this state (AL) rarely have to deal with obviously makes a huge mess. I have a feeling a lot of the people who were stuck on those roads that day were sure that we would have little to no accumulation and no ice to worry about. It just doesn't happen here. However, after this debacle, these same people will be reacting with extreme caution whenever flurries are forecast. I never listened to tornado warnings until a fucking F-5 went over my head. Now I'm heading to the storm shelter at the first mention of a wall cloud. These people will be staying home if at all possible instead of going through this shit again. SOME lessons will be learned.

Okay, and now I'm done reading anything to do with this whole thing. I have been rage stroking all week over the horrible shit being said. It's beyond ridiculous.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > shockwaver 01/31/2014 at 19:58

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Half of my family is in Georgia, closer to Savannah, so I, too know that they aren't prepared for it.

As far as the winter up here, apparently Chi-town is running out of salt because the barges carrying it are stuck. And we're under winter storm warning in effect at 9pm.

Scentless Apprentice > ellejay 01/31/2014 at 20:35

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Yup, this. As a Canadian from rainy vancouver I can attest that driving here in the rain and in the snow are pretty flipping different beasts. I'll drive in the snow, I will not drive in the ice. I don't for a second feel like getting in a pissing contest with other cities on their snow, cause that's stupid.... But I can't understand the thought that snow is some homogenous concept where outside variables have no bearing. I shudder at the thought of my nieces freezing their butts off in Ottawa! But no matter how much snow they triumph over in Ottawa if they come visit me and say "can I take the car out for a spin in the snow? It's fine, I'm from Ottawa!" I'm gonna call their dad and have him explain how one goes about hydro planing through a layer of ice and slush on a steep ass hill.... I wouldn't doubt their snowy badassness, just wether they really understand what snow and ice do in a rainy maritime city/sub temperate rainforest we knocked over and put cars on. Especially when the city is populated by a buttload of other drivers who conceivably have no idea either. Winter bumper car time. My dumbass university refusing to close classes until it's no longer safe to drive down the freaking mountain it's on, which is now covered in sideways sliding buses and making everyone sleep in a gym overnight. And they had their own plows! Because you kinda need them when you put your school on a mountain. I actually bought snow tires because of that incident, and they're still not adequate in a lot of situations.

Oh, then there is last year when they opened a freaking toll bridge that cost us a gazillion dollars but didn't properly anticipate how it would work out in wet, freezing snow and rain days and the main bridge for commuter and commercial transit turned into "icy avalanche simulator bridge" with chunks of ice crashing down onto unsuspecting cars. I hate that stupid bridge.

I'm filled with terror thinking of how freezing cold I'd be in Ottawa, but it's a different set of circumstances. Not sure why anyone is holding pissing contests over it. So yeah, I agree - Ice settles it far more succinctly than what I just said. And I'm absolutely impressed,by anyone braving a badass Ottawa colds snap. And I need to sew my nieces new furry coats or something!

nonstopera > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 20:59

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So Brian Barrett said Northerners were assholes? That's not what I read. I read that people who were making fun of Southerners for not dealing with winter weather as well as Northerners are the assholes. I also didn't read that Southerners have it worse. Just that the circumstances are different. There are multiple reasons why Atlanta had such nightmare gridlock. I don't think the main reason is that Atlantans are just not as smart as the average Northerner. If you want to dismiss all the reasons the gridlock happened so you can laugh at a bunch of people you don't even know for their "stupidity," then yes, you are being an asshole.

CobraJoe > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 01/31/2014 at 21:45

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You did make a bit of a mistake with how you worded it though, you made a sweeping generalization about how plow trucks work when you were just complaining about someone making sweeping generalizations. Different towns and different states all handle snow differently.

And I still don't agree that heavy rain is in any way comparable to snow and ice. Yes, there's the basic idea that you have to be more careful, but the reasons why it's dangerous, what to watch out for, and how to handle each dangerous situation is completely different. Even snow vs ice is completely different. Heavy snow you need to keep momentum and stopping isn't that much of a worry, on sheet ice stopping and turning are very critical. Compared to rain, I'd say vision is the biggest worry, and avoiding hydroplaning is secondary. Of course, driver skill is necessary in any situation, but the only way to get skill is practice, and if you never drive in winter conditions, you never practice, and you'll never obtain or retain the skill.

And I think you read a bit too much into the intent of the piece. I understood it to be a "Stop making fun of us" type of explanation that was angry at people making fun of their situation.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > Petticoat Despot 02/01/2014 at 14:45

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If ice storms happen every 30 years there, and one hasn't occurred in quite a long time, don't you think that they'd have some salt in reserve? Not like salt has an expiration date.

That said, it wouldn't matter anyway because the roads are all covered in ice and no one there has equipment for driving on ice and by the way, ooo the perils of black ice? The whole fucking road is ice.

Well, there's a problem with you saying that the whole road is ice and then commenting about the perils of black ice. Black ice is an iced over surface that looks as though it's not ice, whether it looks wet, dry, or snowy. If you know that the "whole fucking road is ice," then you shouldn't have to worry about black ice because it's already been included in the "whole fucking road."

My hometown has a couple hundred bridges— all iced over. Someone posted a photo of one from the paper: easily half an inch of ice.

Quantity doesn't matter, half and inch of ice, a quarter inch of ice, just some ice spots, it's all the same, because you WILL slide, and you WILL crash if you're not anticipating it. However, if "the whole fucking road is covered in ice," then you SHOULD be anticipating it.

The last time there was an ice storm in the south, the power was out for days and many people don't have firewood. If this happens to the house of my handicapped mother who knows how to drive in snow because she used to live in Washington state, she will have to drive her sedan across one of two iced over land bridges with slightly frozen-over lakes on each side and no railings. Apparently, thinking that this could potentially be a problem MAKES ME AN IDIOT because YOU are unaware of that information.

I'll get back to this whole block later.

And yes, you personally may not have been making those asshole jokes about the south, but 20 of my Facebook friends who are in the snow did. Again. You not personally being aware of other information is not the same thing as that information being wrong.

If you didn't see me making the jokes, why are you attacking me? You should be attacking your twenty "Friends" on Facebook.

Back on the other block of your disabled mother possibly losing power, while there's half an inch of ice on the ground and bridges without railings (why are there bridges without railings?!), here's the deal: You don't HAVE to go ANYWHERE. If the power goes out and it's cold out, you have the choices of putting on more clothes and dealing with it, seeking shelter nearby/calling for help (the US DOES have an emergency response system), and driving through treacherous conditions across dangerous bridges and risking your life. What MAKES YOU AN IDIOT is that you assume the ONLY option is risking life for shelter.

Furthermore, the temperatures only got down into the teens. I'll let you know, not that our temperature got down as low as it did, but that we ALSO had a ~50* drop in temperature overnight.

I took this picture earlier this week. My car was stuck in this snow and had to be pulled out by the tractor. Then I drove 60 miles through the snow, ice, and slush to work. Everyone knew it was slick out, so guess what we did? We drove slow!

And that was earlier in the week. This is 15 minutes ago:

Guess what? The magical snowplows didn't take away all the snow and leave us with crisp, clean roads. That on the road is ice, snow, and slush, all in a mix.

But that's just my opinion, if you can't see the trouble that EVERYONE is going through, then you're just a shortsighted person.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > MadamePeaceLove 02/01/2014 at 14:46

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However, after this debacle, these same people will be reacting with extreme caution whenever flurries are forecast. I never listened to tornado warnings until a fucking F-5 went over my head.

Just like this, you shouldn't drive when it's icy then. End of story.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > nonstopera 02/01/2014 at 14:49

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Wouldn't you be upset if it said something like "Why Lake Shore Drive in Chicago Fell Apart," then you read "Why you're wrong" and "Why You're an Asshole," wouldn't you be a little pissed if you're just trying to find out what was happening? He went about this the wrong way.

nonstopera > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 02/01/2014 at 15:41

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Not if I was concerned about people in Chicago and didn't identify with any of the criticisms in the article.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > CobraJoe 02/01/2014 at 16:03

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And you're nitpicking something as trivial as the difference between rain and snow while avoiding the overall issue at hand of an Author calling a portion of his audience Assholes.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > nonstopera 02/01/2014 at 16:04

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Good for you.

CobraJoe > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 02/01/2014 at 22:05

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Driving in rain:

Driving in snow:

Not a trivial difference, not nitpicking, and if you claim they're similar again I'm gonna slap you. Thinking they're similar is a great way to get into a wreck.

And I don't see a problem with an author calling a portion of his audience assholes, they were being assholes. He was specifically calling out the people who were making fun of people who weren't prepared for or experienced in winter driving.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > CobraJoe 02/02/2014 at 15:26

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Rain: H2O
Snow: Cold H2O
Ice: Frozen H2O

All of them create a smaller frictional coefficient between the cars tires and the road. All of them increase stopping distance and reduce the amount of force necessary to "break loose." They're similar. Come slap me because physics, please?

CobraJoe > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 02/03/2014 at 10:12

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For someone who has claimed to drive in the snow and ice often, you really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I'm imagining that bearded guy is you. (EDIT: The gif might not show up. That's a shame, it looks really painful)

Yes, all forms of H2O reduce the friction coefficient between tires and road, but there is a vast difference between liquid and frozen (and snow is frozen H20 too).

Here are the best numbers I found for friction coefficients:

Dry: 0.9

Wet: 0.75

Snow: 0.35

Glare Ice: 0.19 (worst condition)

According to these numbers, you have the following stats assuming the same weight of car:

Wet: 83% of the dry stopping friction which equals 1.2 times the stopping distance

Snow: 39% of the dry stopping friction which equals 2.6 times the stopping distance

Ice: 21% of the dry stopping friction which equals 4.7 times the stopping distance.

So, if you have a stopping distance of 150feet (pretty good stopping distance for a normal car at 60mph), you'd go 180 feet in rain, 390 feet in snow, 705 feet on ice.

Conclusion: Wet roads are a bit worse than dry, but a driver can easily compensate by increasing the following distance (after all, no normal driver uses 100% of the dry braking friction in every day driving). Snow and ice shouldn't even be considered at highway speeds. And that's just stopping. Getting your car moving from a stop, pointing the right direction in a turn, and not losing traction in panic situations (which there normally will be in snow and icy conditions) is a whole other set of skills which can vary based on snow, snow pack, ice, sanded ice, or other conditions.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > CobraJoe 02/03/2014 at 14:50

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For someone who likes to argue, you really don't know what the hell similar means:

sim·i·lar

simlr/

adjective

adjective: similar

1 .

resembling without being identical.

"a soft cheese similar to Brie"

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Resembling without being identical .

CobraJoe > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 02/03/2014 at 15:17

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You're really scratching the bottom of the barrel now to try and prove yourself to not be wrong. I'll play along though...

How are rain and snow similar? They're both precipitation that come from the sky and can cover roads.

How are they different? How they look (Snow is white, rain is clear), how they accumulate (Snow piles up everywhere, rain runs to low spots), how they dissipate (Rain will usually runoff, snow must be manually removed or wait for it to be melted), how it's measured (rain in inches, snow in feet), the temperatures required, how they change the driving conditions (Snow is much slicker than rain), how they change after being driven over (Snow packs down and becomes even more slippery), how schools react (they never cancel school for a 'rain day'), how local governments react (no snow plows or salt spreading trucks needed for rain), and probably many more examples that I won't bother coming up with now.

Any similarities are far outweighed by the number of dissimilarities. You might as well say my son's Cozy Coupe is similar to a Corvette because they both are made of plastic and have a steering wheel.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > CobraJoe 02/03/2014 at 15:29

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I'm not scraping the bottom of the barrel, I just don't care about this anymore. Blame ADD.

CobraJoe > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 02/03/2014 at 15:34

0

Then why bother replying?

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > CobraJoe 02/03/2014 at 15:44

0

Because I'm bored at work. How's your day going?

CobraJoe > iforgotmyburnerkeyonce 02/03/2014 at 17:07

1

Ah.

Boring, but not because of lack of work, just tired of doing repetitive stuff.

iforgotmyburnerkeyonce > CobraJoe 02/03/2014 at 17:24

0

Welcome to the club. I used to like computers before I got this job. Now I just want to kill them all.